Main.StillToBeIdentifiedCassirersInOber-Glogau History
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The matters raised below have been resolved. The Cassirers in Oberglogau were associated with Siegfried Cassirer, brother of Markus Cassirer. At the time of the discussion below it was believed that Markus was the son of Moses ben Loebel Cassirer. We now know that is not the case and that all the evidence points to him, and Siegfried being the sons of Moses ('Mausche') Cassirer of Bujakow - referred to below as Moses [2] Cassirer. We now have documentary evidence that Siegfried moved to Oberglogau.
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The matters raised below have been resolved. The Cassirers in Oberglogau were associated with Siegfried Cassirer, brother of Markus Cassirer. At the time of the discussion below it was believed that Markus was the son of Moses ben Loebel Cassirer. We now know that is not the case and that all the evidence points to him, and Siegfried being the sons of Moses ('Mausche') Cassirer of Bujakow - referred to below as Moses [2] Cassirer. We now have documentary evidence that Siegfried moved to Oberglogau on 1 September 1840.
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The matters raised below have been resolved. The Cassirers in Oberglogau were associated with Siegfried Cassirer, brother of Markus Cassirer. At the time of the discussion below it was believed that Markus was the son of Moses ben Loebel Cassirer. We now know that is not the case and that all the evidence points to him, and Siegfried being the sons of Moses ('Mausche') Cassirer of Bujakow. We now have documentary evidence that Siegfried moved to Oberglogau.
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The matters raised below have been resolved. The Cassirers in Oberglogau were associated with Siegfried Cassirer, brother of Markus Cassirer. At the time of the discussion below it was believed that Markus was the son of Moses ben Loebel Cassirer. We now know that is not the case and that all the evidence points to him, and Siegfried being the sons of Moses ('Mausche') Cassirer of Bujakow - referred to below as Moses [2] Cassirer. We now have documentary evidence that Siegfried moved to Oberglogau.
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**23 July 2023: This is of historical interest only now**
The matters raised below have been resolved. The Cassirers in Oberglogau were associated with Siegfried Cassirer, brother of Markus Cassirer. At the time of the discussion below it was believed that Markus was the son of Moses ben Loebel Cassirer. We now know that is not the case and that all the evidence points to him, and Siegfried being the sons of Moses ('Mausche') Cassirer of Bujakow. We now have documentary evidence that Siegfried moved to Oberglogau.
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Moses ('Mausche') married EvaFischer and in due course had a son Loebel2Cassirer (7 Mar 1809-bef 1849)[^Moses2Cassirer and EvaFischer in turn had a son Moritz2Cassirer (4 Sep 1829-8 Mar 1830) who thus died in his first year^]. We have no record of their other children but they could well have included Ida, Siegfried and daughter O or D Cohen (although mysteriously Siegfried and D Cohen are referred to as "Messrs").[^Expat: Remember the possibility of missreadings, especially the 'D' of 'Cohn' which might also be an 'O'. If this should be of first importance, then we should look for the facsimile (from some other library through Heidelberg University Library). But the snippet of google-books (in this case from the original text) says the same: ' 27. . den Herren Siegfried Cassirer und D. Cohn zu Ober-Glogau, zum Andenken an ihre Eltern Moses Cassirer, st. 17. September 1852, und Eva Cassirer, st. 23. September 1852, und deren Tochter Ida, st. 23. Dezember 1863.'^].
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Expat noted that "There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida Crämer (Krämer), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years too early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer)."
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**SITE EDITOR: The simplest conclusion appears to be that Siegfried and Ida were indeed the children of Moses [2] Cassirer and his wife Eva. The dates cited appear consistent with this conclusion.**
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There's one of these terrible txt-transscriptions with lots of missreadings by the computer, but it's better than nothing:
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There's one of these terrible text-transcriptions with lots of missreadings by the computer, but it's better than nothing:
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida Crämer (Krämer), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida Crämer (Krämer), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years too early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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(:Speculations: L:)(:Places: L :)(:ToBeIdentified: L:)
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(:Speculations: L:)(:Places: L :)(:StillToBeIdentified: L:)
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(:Speculations: L:)(:Places: L :)
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(:Speculations: L:)(:Places: L :)(:ToBeIdentified: L:)
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(:Speculations: L:)
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(:Speculations: L:)(:Places: L :)
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(:Speculations: L:)
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We have a record of a bequest (date unknown[^Expat: I couldn't find the exact date the donations to the Seminar were made. Perhaps this is hidden somewhere in the rotten computer-transscription (I haven't studied it patiently).^] to the Jewish-Theological Seminar Foundation in Breslau in memory as follows:
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We have a record of a bequest (date unknown)[^Expat: I couldn't find the exact date the donations to the Seminar were made. Perhaps this is hidden somewhere in the rotten computer-transscription (I haven't studied it patiently).^] to the Jewish-Theological Seminar Foundation in Breslau in memory as follows:
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Moses2Cassirer married EvaFischer and in due course had a son Loebel2Cassirer (7 Mar 1809-bef 1849)[^Moses2Cassirer and EvaFischer in turn had a son Moritz2Cassirer (4 Sep 1829-8 Mar 1830) who thus died in his first year^]. We have no record of their other children but they could well have included Ida, Siegfried and daughter O or D Cohen although mysteriously Siegfried and D Cohen are referred to as "Messrs"[^Expat: Remember the possibility of missreadings, especially the 'D' of 'Cohn' which might also be an 'O'. If this should be of first importance, then we should look for the facsimile (from some other library through Heidelberg University Library). But the snippet of google-books (in this case from the original text) says the same: ' 27. . den Herren Siegfried Cassirer und D. Cohn zu Ober-Glogau, zum Andenken an ihre Eltern Moses Cassirer, st. 17. September 1852, und Eva Cassirer, st. 23. September 1852, und deren Tochter Ida, st. 23. Dezember 1863.'^]).
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Moses2Cassirer married EvaFischer and in due course had a son Loebel2Cassirer (7 Mar 1809-bef 1849)[^Moses2Cassirer and EvaFischer in turn had a son Moritz2Cassirer (4 Sep 1829-8 Mar 1830) who thus died in his first year^]. We have no record of their other children but they could well have included Ida, Siegfried and daughter O or D Cohen (although mysteriously Siegfried and D Cohen are referred to as "Messrs").[^Expat: Remember the possibility of missreadings, especially the 'D' of 'Cohn' which might also be an 'O'. If this should be of first importance, then we should look for the facsimile (from some other library through Heidelberg University Library). But the snippet of google-books (in this case from the original text) says the same: ' 27. . den Herren Siegfried Cassirer und D. Cohn zu Ober-Glogau, zum Andenken an ihre Eltern Moses Cassirer, st. 17. September 1852, und Eva Cassirer, st. 23. September 1852, und deren Tochter Ida, st. 23. Dezember 1863.'^].
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(:title Still to be identified Cassirers In Oberglogau:)
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Siegfried Cassirer[^This cannot be Siegfried2Cassirer son of Salmon2Cassirer and [[RoselCraemer|Rosel KRÄMER]] - since these are the wrong parents^]
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Siegfried Cassirer[^This cannot be Siegfried2Cassirer son of Salomon2Cassirer and [[RoselCraemer|Rosel KRÄMER]] - since these are the wrong parents^]
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Moses2Cassirer married EvaFischer and in due course had a son Loebel2Cassirer (7 Mar 1809-bef 1849)[^Moses2Cassirer and EvaFischer in turn had a son Moritz2Cassirer (4 Sep 1829-8 Mar 1830) who thus died in his first year^]. We have no record of their other children but they could well have included Ida, Siegfried and daughter O or D Cohen although mysteriously Siegfried and D Cohen are referred to as "Messrs"[^Expat: *remember the possibility of missreadings, especially the 'D' of 'Cohn' which might also be an 'O'. If this should be of first importance, then we should look for the facsimile (from some other library through Heidelberg University Library). But the snippet of google-books (in this case from the original text) says the same: ' 27. . den Herren Siegfried Cassirer und D. Cohn zu Ober-Glogau, zum Andenken an ihre Eltern Moses Cassirer, st. 17. September 1852, und Eva Cassirer, st. 23. September 1852, und deren Tochter Ida, st. 23. Dezember 1863.'^]).
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Moses2Cassirer married EvaFischer and in due course had a son Loebel2Cassirer (7 Mar 1809-bef 1849)[^Moses2Cassirer and EvaFischer in turn had a son Moritz2Cassirer (4 Sep 1829-8 Mar 1830) who thus died in his first year^]. We have no record of their other children but they could well have included Ida, Siegfried and daughter O or D Cohen although mysteriously Siegfried and D Cohen are referred to as "Messrs"[^Expat: Remember the possibility of missreadings, especially the 'D' of 'Cohn' which might also be an 'O'. If this should be of first importance, then we should look for the facsimile (from some other library through Heidelberg University Library). But the snippet of google-books (in this case from the original text) says the same: ' 27. . den Herren Siegfried Cassirer und D. Cohn zu Ober-Glogau, zum Andenken an ihre Eltern Moses Cassirer, st. 17. September 1852, und Eva Cassirer, st. 23. September 1852, und deren Tochter Ida, st. 23. Dezember 1863.'^]).
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida CRÄMER (KRÄMER), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida Crämer (Krämer), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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Siegfried Cassirer[^This cannot be Siegfried2Cassirer son of Salmon2Cassirer and [[RoselCraemer|KRÄMER]] - since these are the wrong parents^]
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Siegfried Cassirer[^This cannot be Siegfried2Cassirer son of Salmon2Cassirer and [[RoselCraemer|Rosel KRÄMER]] - since these are the wrong parents^]
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida CRÄMER (KRÄMER), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born C-Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida CRÄMER (KRÄMER), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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Siegfried Cassirer[^This cannot be Siegfried2Cassirer son of SalmonCassirer and [[RoselCraemer|KRÄMER]] - since these are the wrong parents^]
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Siegfried Cassirer[^This cannot be Siegfried2Cassirer son of Salmon2Cassirer and [[RoselCraemer|KRÄMER]] - since these are the wrong parents^]
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida CRÄMER (KRÄMER), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of SalomonCassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born C-Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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*There is an identified Ida Cassirer - born Ida CRÄMER (KRÄMER), who married LeopoldCassirer (son of Salomon2Cassirer and Ernestine Wachsmann) in 1858. At best this would make her a daughter in law not daughter, which is a possible translation error.[^Expat: Whilst there is an Ida Cassirer (ne [[IdaKraemer|Ida Krämer]]) in the family tree from the right region, how can 'Ida', born C-Krämer, be a daughter of Cassirers? It seems she is a daughter-in-law [Schwiegertochter]. So, again a bureaucratic routine-slip. BUT: we shouldn't forget that not all 'participants' in jewish documents spoke the average 'Hochdeutsch' of today's German but mixtures of - e.g. - Yiddish with Czech, Hungarian, Polish etc.. This means that we should count with somehow inventive ad hoc-translations to fit the spoken into the bureaucratic 'Hochdeutsch' printed form.^] But it is hard to see the scenario where she becomes even a daughter in law to either this Moses (who seems not to be MosesLoebelCassirer)[^MosesLoebelCassirer (d. 28 Apr 1837) died 15 years to early to be the Moses in this record and he married Pesel Bat Salomon not Eva^] or if the meaning is different to this Siegfried2Cassirer (son of Moses2Cassirer).
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*SiegfriedCassirer (brother of MarkusCassirer) married Henriette Fischer (1821-1891)
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*SiegfriedCassirer (brother of MarkusCassirer) married HenrietteFischer (1821-1891)